Apple

[Grieve]

Well, I nailed it so far.

o new AppleTv with 1080P
o new iPad with 2048x1536 (more than an HD TV!)
o 5mp camera with 1080P video and image stabilization
o dual core processor with quad core graphics - 4X perf of iPad 2
o 4G LTE (9 hours battery with 4G on!). 72MB/s theoretical max speed
o personal hotspot
o voice dictation (but no Siri??)

Stock selling off on the news, as predicted. I'll be looking for an opportunity to buy more at a discount.

[Grieve]

Interesting stats from the presentations - new iPad has more memory and higher resolution that the ps3 and xbox360. No way for consoles to beat the iPad on resolution, until the next generation of TVs come out!

[Breand]

Yeah, but my iPad doesnt have a 52 inch screen.

I think all they really did is bring it up to speed with the 4S, minus Siri but with a better processor.

[Grieve]

Yeah, but my iPad doesnt have a 52 inch screen

it does with AirPlay!

The new software is pretty cool as well, especially iPhoto and iMovie. I expect we'll be seeing lots of new Apple commercials with them...

[Vanraw]

Well, I nailed it so far.

o new AppleTv with 1080P
o new iPad with 2048x1536 (more than an HD TV!)
o 5mp camera with 1080P video and image stabilization
o dual core processor with quad core graphics - 4X perf of iPad 2
o 4G LTE (9 hours battery with 4G on!). 72MB/s theoretical max speed
o personal hotspot
o voice dictation (but no Siri??)

Stock selling off on the news, as predicted. I'll be looking for an opportunity to buy more at a discount.

There is nothing here that would make me sell my galaxy 10.1. I do find it interesting though that younseem to like 4g now :-)

[Grieve]

I do find it interesting though that younseem to like 4g now :-)

I was just commenting on the fact that Apple can get 9 hours battery with 4g on. They might not be first with every feature, but they always do it better...

I won't be getting one either, sadly. Wife nixed that idea, and to be fair we really can't justify the expense.

[Jakensama]

Interesting stats from the presentations - new iPad has more memory and higher resolution that the ps3 and xbox360. No way for consoles to beat the iPad on resolution, until the next generation of TVs come out!

Wow, its got more memory and higher resolution than a device that came out in 2005. And you can have all that gaming power on a tiny device with a touch screen interface. (Unless you are seriously going to try to sell the idea that gaming companys are going to start making real games that they wirelessly download to the tablet with shitty storage capacity so you can stream it on airplay.)

Truly the future of gaming.

Seriously though, how big is 4g (for tablets)? What percentage of ipads sold are mobile enabled? Everyone I know with an iPad just bought a wifi enabled one. Why would you want another phone data subscription for a device whose only real purpose is on the shitter where you already have wifi? (This also brings up the question of the value of the camera, but I dont know what people want to do with there shitter device).

But I better get paid before I hear about you having one

Actually I think the big news for apple sales will be lowering the ipad 2 to 399 for the base model. The ipad 3 is about the poster child for incremental upgrade, but a 400 buck ipad 2 should sell quite well, just not sure what the profit margin is at that point'?

[Slamz]

Oh, it's the PAD that has 9 hours of battery life with 4g?

Well duh. I'm sure any Android could get 9 hours of battery life in 4G with the size of battery you could fit in a tablet. Can't compare tablet batteries to phone batteries.

[Grieve]

Well duh. I'm sure any Android could get 9 hours of battery life in 4G with the size of battery you could fit in a tablet. Can't compare tablet batteries to phone batteries.

Actually the iPad smokes all other tablets on battery life:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-200...t-results/

This test with the Samsung Galaxy Tab 4G indicates they got less than 4½ hours, even though they were using wifi some of the time.

Battery life turned out to be a major disappointment. Verizon made vague claims of 12 hours of use on a single battery charge. But in my harsh test, in which I cranked up the brightness level to about 75%, used cellular and (for part of my test) Wi-Fi connections while streaming videos, I barely approached 4½ hours.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/e...-tab_n.htm

[Grieve]

Wow, its got more memory and higher resolution than a device that came out in 2005. And you can have all that gaming power on a tiny device with a touch screen interface. (Unless you are seriously going to try to sell the idea that gaming companys are going to start making real games that they wirelessly download to the tablet with shitty storage capacity so you can stream it on airplay.)

Truly the future of gaming.

No, like I said in other threads on this, I don't think "serious" gamers (Purge folks) will be moving to the iPad, at least not anytime soon. But I think it could capture a big portion of non-hardcore gamers (a much larger pool). The people that currently use the Wii, or the DS, or the Gamepad, and so on.

I do think even serious consoles could be in trouble longer term. As you said, the current consoles have been around since 2005. There's a new iPad out every year, with better and better specs. Do you see a problem there? I don't even think the 55" TV is a big differentiator, because the iPad is much closer to your eyes, and has more resolution. Soon there's going to be mainstream "gaming glasses" as well - Google is about to come out with something along those lines.

Size of the game download doesn't matter as much as internet speeds get faster - you can leave the majority of the game on "the cloud". Anyway, the largest iPad has 64GB of flash storage. Original Xbox 360 had what, 20GB?

Seriously though, how big is 4g (for tablets)? What percentage of ipads sold are mobile enabled? Everyone I know with an iPad just bought a wifi enabled one. Why would you want another phone data subscription for a device whose only real purpose is on the shitter where you already have wifi? (This also brings up the question of the value of the camera, but I dont know what people want to do with there shitter device).

This is going to be a big business use thing. Tablets are taking off in the workplace really fast. I agree for home use, wifi is fine most of the time.

Actually I think the big news for apple sales will be lowering the ipad 2 to 399 for the base model. The ipad 3 is about the poster child for incremental upgrade, but a 400 buck ipad 2 should sell quite well, just not sure what the profit margin is at that point'?

I agree, that's pretty big. Apple is also selling a refurbished iPad 2 for 350 bucks. Strong rumors they are putting out a n 8" "mini-iPad" later this year as well to fend off the Amazon Fire.

A lot of people seem to be saying the iPad 3 is incremental - don't really understand that. 4X the resolution, 4X the speed, 4G, etc...that seems like a bigger ugprade than iPad 2 was from iPad 1. I'm not really sure what Apple could have added that would have been considered non-incremental (maybe the haptic screen...). Siri was missing, but a software upgrade can easily change that.

[Vanraw]

Well duh. I'm sure any Android could get 9 hours of battery life in 4G with the size of battery you could fit in a tablet. Can't compare tablet batteries to phone batteries.

Actually the iPad smokes all other tablets on battery life:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-200...t-results/

This test with the Samsung Galaxy Tab 4G indicates they got less than 4½ hours, even though they were using wifi some of the time.

Battery life turned out to be a major disappointment. Verizon made vague claims of 12 hours of use on a single battery charge. But in my harsh test, in which I cranked up the brightness level to about 75%, used cellular and (for part of my test) Wi-Fi connections while streaming videos, I barely approached 4½ hours.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/e...-tab_n.htm

Well I can tell you without a doubt that I am getting 8.5 to 11 hours on my galaxy tab 10.1 4g, using the hell out of it. I can also tell you that if you intend is the drain the batteries as fast as possible you could do it, by running multi apps, streaming video 100% of the time, etc. Same goes for any device.

[Vanraw]

I won't be getting one either, sadly. Wife nixed that idea, and to be fair we really can't justify the expense.

This is probably the most significant thing I've heard in regards to a leading indicator. I have a couple of employees that are hard core apple fans as well, and they are saying the same thing. Mostly, that their ipad2 is working and they will be holding off on ipad3, where 4 months ago they were salivating. This probably has more to do with personal economic pressures and uncertainty, then excitement over the ipad3.

[Breand]

I am completely content with my iPad 2, there is no way I'm getting the new one. I am a little bit grumbly that I bought it in December and the new one is out already (everything I read at the time said summer). I never use it to take pictures (the camera does suck hard tho), the current resolution is already awesome, and I haven't encountered any app or situation where Ive cursed the speed of it's processor.

To me, especially those users who already have a 4S iPhone, there is no reason to upgrade to this one.

Maybe the iPad 1 owners will jump?

Also, Ive heard some snickering from the fanboys that Jobs is truly dead because the iPad 3 is 7% bigger and 5% heavier than the iPad 2.

[Vanraw]

Maybe the iPad 1 owners will jump?

That's probably a good bet.


I wonder if / when smart phones and tablets will be entering the same commodity like cycle issue as PC's and laptops.

1. Performance of older laptops is fine. Where upgrades were done almost yearly, now they are 4 or 5 years.
2. Quality is really very good. Meaning the electronics simply dont break very often.
3. Average users dont really care about the next big wizbang and are content to stay.
4. Applications and OS's used to drive HW upgrades. But that day is gone. I have office 2003 on all my home PC's and have zero reason to upgrade. In fact office 97 would fill all my word and spreadsheet requirements.

Look at companies like Dell, and HP, and IBM as it relates to the PC market. They are fleeing (IBM) threatening to flee (HP) or trying like hell to reinvent themselves to keep revenue (Dell). There will be a point when the smart phone and tablet offerings reach the same point. The million dollar question is when...

[Breand]

I would say it only becomes a problem when apps start saying "will only work on iPad 3 or higher."

[Grieve]

With smart phones, at least in the US, I suspect it will stay pretty much on the two year cycle. When people are up for a new subsidized phone, they'll get one. Some people will hold off, but other people (fanboys/early adopters) will get the latest model every year because they just can't wait, so it will balance out.

Tablets are a bit trickier, because there is no subsidy (unless maybe you're getting a 3G or 4G plan). I think the cycle will be less than laptops or desktops (because tablets are cheaper and, right now, "cooler"), but more than cell phones. Maybe every 3 years.

The important thing right now is that there are still a huge number of people worldwide that don't have a tablet OR a smart phone, so growth can be huge even without upgraders. And yeah, I think a lot of iPad 1 (or Android!!) tablet owners will upgrade to either the cheaper iPad 2 or the iPad 3. You know you want to, Slamz, Maul and Jake.

There will definitely be iPad 3-only apps, or just apps (like iPhoto or iMovie, or games) that are way better with the higher res and faster processor.

[Slamz]

Well duh. I'm sure any Android could get 9 hours of battery life in 4G with the size of battery you could fit in a tablet. Can't compare tablet batteries to phone batteries.

Actually the iPad smokes all other tablets on battery life:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-200...t-results/

This test with the Samsung Galaxy Tab 4G indicates they got less than 4½ hours, even though they were using wifi some of the time.

Battery life turned out to be a major disappointment. Verizon made vague claims of 12 hours of use on a single battery charge. But in my harsh test, in which I cranked up the brightness level to about 75%, used cellular and (for part of my test) Wi-Fi connections while streaming videos, I barely approached 4½ hours.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/e...-tab_n.htm

By looking at these tests and results, we see that the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 has a default brightness of over double that of the iPad 2. Their tests apparently averaged our default vs maximum brightness, which would have been a big boost to the iPad even though you aren't comparing apples to apples (so to speak).

The USA Today guy specifically said he tested "harsh", with maximum brightness, but he made no such test of the iPad. After reading both articles there is no indication that an iPad at maximum brightness outperforms the Galaxy at maximum brightness, OR that an iPad at default brightness outperforms a Galaxy if you could set the Galaxy down to the same brightness level of the iPad (can you? I assume so.)

Those tests apparently weren't done.


In terms of Apple as an investment prospect, there is some amusement here in noting that Apple, intentionally or not, gets a lot of help from the media. By not comparing the two products on the same level, the iPad was made out to be superior to the Galaxy even though the tests were flawed in a way that would embarrass a 5th grader. Apple has a lot of fans, and a lot of them happen to be writers for various magazines, and they aren't bashful about making Apple look better than they really are.

My worry, and why I still haven't bought Apple, is that there's too much smoke and mirrors involved. "You can't fool all of the people all of the time."

[strife]

Also, all the tests were done BY APPLE! We'll see how it actually turns out once all the geek shops get a hold of it and do their own testing. Nvidia has already jumped off the ledge bitching that their ntegra card will still perform as well as the quad core GPU the Ipad 3 has.

[Vanraw]

Tablets are a bit trickier, because there is no subsidy (unless maybe you're getting a 3G or 4G plan). I think the cycle will be less than laptops or desktops (because tablets are cheaper and, right now, "cooler"), but more than cell phones. Maybe every 3 years.

Cooler yes, cheaper?? No. You can get a solid laptop for a couple hundred less then the ipad3 pricing.

I agree on the phones though. But I think your going to continue to see carriers pull away from that. Keep in mind that its all about sticky glue for the carriers. They have always struggled with people hopping from carrier to carrier every 2 years. One of the motivations for VZ and ATT to move away from the unlimited data plan, was to create sticky glue or the existing customer base. Ie, if you are a vz customer and have an unlimited plan, why would move to ATT and get a 2 gig max for the same price?

They are leveraging this. Providing they dont start bleeding customer base to Sprint and tmobile look for them to pull back more and more on the subsidized phones. IPhone the most since there are margin issues there anyway.

[Grieve]

Diablo 3-like Infinity Blade: Dungeons teaser (not clear if this is playing on the Ipad 3 or 2, but still very impressive):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yA0xd6l0HE[/youtube]

[Jakensama]

I do think even serious consoles could be in trouble longer term. As you said, the current consoles have been around since 2005.

This gen consoles have been around since 2005 and they still beat the living shit out of games on the ipad - how do you think its going to compete when the next gen consoles are out next year or so? Hell, I don't even think that the ipad has any games that match PS2 games. The best game on ipad is final fantasy tactics and thats a fucking PS1 port.

the 55" TV is a big differentiator, because the iPad is much closer to your eyes, and has more resolution.

At a certain point higher resolution doesn't mean shit. The advantage of a 55 inch TV is that you can sit on your couch and watch a big screen, not hold a douchey tablet in your hand and stare at it.

Size of the game download doesn't matter as much as internet speeds get faster - you can leave the majority of the game on "the cloud". Anyway, the largest iPad has 64GB of flash storage. Original Xbox 360 had what, 20GB?

The cloud still has a long way to go, no one wants to game with a delay. Storage doesn't matter on the xbox 360 since you insert disks to play it.

This is going to be a big business use thing. Tablets are taking off in the workplace really fast. I agree for home use, wifi is fine most of the time.

Doubtful that it will be a game changer there, 99% of the time places businessmen would be with it have some sort of wifi access. If you are running around town and need to check your email its much better to pull out your phone. The one place 4g would be nice on a tablet is on a subway but thats a moot point since subways don't get cell reception. These things are in workplaces because executives realized they can scam a free toy from the company and execu-speak it into a pretend tool. If one of my employees ever tells me they need an ipad for work I will thank God I run a shop in a right to work state so I can fire them on the spot.

A lot of people seem to be saying the iPad 3 is incremental - don't really understand that. 4X the resolution, 4X the speed, 4G, etc...that seems like a bigger ugprade than iPad 2 was from iPad 1. I'm not really sure what Apple could have added that would have been considered non-incremental (maybe the haptic screen...). Siri was missing, but a software upgrade can easily change that.

Ipad 2 was an incremental upgrade as well. Unless you are offering something for the average person its just not that big a sell for people who already own them.

Resolution eventually quits being a selling point - I'm also skeptical of their often inflated performance claims.

Diablo 3-like Infinity Blade: Dungeons teaser (not clear if this is playing on the Ipad 3 or 2, but still very impressive):

Too bad it is on a device with an atrocious input method for gaming.

[Grieve]

Doubtful that it will be a game changer there, 99% of the time places businessmen would be with it have some sort of wifi access. If you are running around town and need to check your email its much better to pull out your phone. The one place 4g would be nice on a tablet is on a subway but thats a moot point since subways don't get cell reception. These things are in workplaces because executives realized they can scam a free toy from the company and execu-speak it into a pretend tool. If one of my employees ever tells me they need an ipad for work I will thank God I run a shop in a right to work state so I can fire them on the spot.

I really think you're wrong on this one. I work for a really big company, and all the sales and marketing folks are using iPads instead of laptops. They are not even taking their laptops with them to sales conferences and customer sites. You go into a hospital, and you see doctors and nurses walking around with them. Airlines are giving them to pilots to use in the cockpit.

Here's an article showing in 2010, iPads were in use at 9% of small and medium business, and in 2011 it had already grown to 34%:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/o...story.html

Here's another: iPads Eliminate Need for Laptops for 60% of Business Professionals

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...z1ochM9aAN

[Vanraw]

I think it will depend on the job. There are some functions where a tablet makes sense. But if your doing anything that requires accurate input or any sort of significant computing power, we have a long way to go. I have some friends that use pads in a hospital, and they absolutely hate them. The sales people that come vist me don't have pads, with the exception of one and he drags a keyboard around with him. Bottom line is the input and computing power still have a long way to go.

The windows 8 promise is the first real step I have seen that might cross the bridge. The other thing that has to happen is true cloud computing. Today the cloud is nothing but a over glorified disk.

[Rallick]

I have to agree with Greive on this one. I work for a large Canadian bank and tablets are a desire for quite a few people. Especially traveling people and marketing.

[Breand]

Final Fantasy Tactics on iPad??? And then I saw it was $18. I have it for the PS and PSP, they should just give this thing to me for free already!