Apple

[Vanraw]

Carl Icahn tweeted that he has taken a "large" position in Apple, thinks its "extremely undervalued"...stock jumped as high as $488.69 in response. It's already up almost $100 from its lows 7 weeks ago.

For context, he bought into Netflix at $58 last year, saying similar things. Netflix is at $261 now.

Pump and Dump. Icahn is a master at it.

Read everything he has said and there is nothing in it, except him wanting apple to a large stock buyback. Nothing of content. Nothing of new products nothing of new revenue. Just a pump and dump. He will run it up and make money. Then he will short it......

Im still in. Said I would sell at 500, and at this rate that might be at the end of the week.

[Grieve]

Might be, came very close earlier today.

I wouldn't say Icahn is a pump and dumper. He tends to have a medium term outlook - 1-2 years, unless he succeeds or fails in a particular goal, like influencing the board to take a certain route. With Apple's market cap he has no leverage over them, though. He clearly believes the stock is undervalued and has a lot of upside, just as with Netflix.

Doug Kass is a pump and dumper, but Icahn isn't the type to get in, cause a big pop, and quickly sell.

[Vanraw]

He is a bully. And he has a history of making money on destroying companies. However it might be what ape needs.his focus will be that hundred plus billion in cash.

It did hit 500, and I didn't sell. Lets see how far he can pump it.

[Grieve]

Good man - I knew you were a true believer at heart!

The markets look like they may be setting up for a pullback (did you keep your TZA?), and if so, AAPL will probably go down somewhat as well (although it held up well yesterday). I really do believe sentiment has turned on the stock. I even bought yet more today.

Always take CNBC with a grain of salt, but this Fibonacci chartist believes the stock is on it's way to $582, and if it breaks through that level, will go to $792...

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100963051

[Vanraw]

In my "play accounts" right now I only own 2 things. TZA and Apple. Interesting is that as TZA goes into the money, apple is resisting dropping with the market. Its almost like people are going to it for safety.... FOOLS....

Im gonna watch it. I'm up about 14%. Could easily pump this sucker up to 550 or 600. If Apple did announce an aggressive buyback, it could do 700. I doubt they will though. Tim Cook seems to want to sit on 100 billion. Its like Penis envy.

Honestly, They should go out and buy something.

[Grieve]

I doubt they will though. Tim Cook seems to want to sit on 100 billion. Its like Penis envy.

Honestly, They should go out and buy something.

Making a huge acquisition just because you have the money to do so is pretty much the worst idea ever.

Let's think about this...Time Warner and AOL...HP and Compaq...News Corp and MySpace...Ebay and Skype...and worst of all, Google and Motorola. $12.5 billion, mainly for the patent portfolio, and they haven't yet won a single patent ruling. And the hardware business continues to hemorrhage money and drag down Google's results. Moto X is already looking like another failure (mid-range specs at a premium price).

Apple actually makes a ton of acquisitions (7-10 a year), but almost all very small. The only one I think might have been a good buy for them while it was cheaper was Twitter, but that's a big assumption that Twitter was open to be being bought. But I think in general, big acquisitions make you lose focus as you try to force two different cultures to mesh. Unless you are already a big conglomerate. There's also the fact that most of their money is overseas.

Anyway, they are already returning $100m to shareholders in dividends and buybacks. And if Icahn has his way, it will be a lot more.

In my "play accounts" right now I only own 2 things. TZA and Apple.

Which is pretty ironic considering you rival Jake and Slamz in your relentless Apple bashing...

[strife]

Hopefull this isn't the best Apple has in the 5S.

But if you want something a bit more flashy, Apple is reportedly planning to offer its iPhone in gold.

[Vanraw]

I doubt they will though. Tim Cook seems to want to sit on 100 billion. Its like Penis envy.

Honestly, They should go out and buy something.

Making a huge acquisition just because you have the money to do so is pretty much the worst idea ever..

My point is, Do something with the money or return it to the owners. Apple doesn't have a the right to sit on over a hundred billion in cash. This is what you will hear from Icahn in then next couple months. He will be come very vocal when Apple decides to sit on its cash hoard, and not return it to the its investors.

Anyway, they are already returning $100m to shareholders in dividends and buybacks. And if Icahn has his way, it will be a lot more...

Really 100m?? Your praising this action? Yes its a lot to you and me, but they need to be talking about Billions. 100m from a hundred billion is a joke.

In my "play accounts" right now I only own 2 things. TZA and Apple.

Which is pretty ironic considering you rival Jake and Slamz in your relentless Apple bashing...

When it comes to investing, its not about moral compass. Its about making money. I would have sold at 500, but think Icahan and Einhorn are going to play a game here that will drive this stock up. This is the only reason I still have it.

By the way my wife just upgraded phones and dumped has iPhone for the Samsung 4s, and could not be happier. Her biggest beef is that is that the iTune music didn't move over like the amazon mp3's did seamlessly. Good thing she only has a few iTunes songs..... This is the future of Apple unless they do something. They well turn into a commodity company for iphone/pad. It is their only significant revenue, and it is under attack from everywhere.

I wish they were a organic home grown do no evil company. I mean really, they are an American manufacturing corporation. To bad they don't make anything in America.

[Grieve]

Really 100m?? Your praising this action? Yes its a lot to you and me, but they need to be talking about Billions. 100m from a hundred billion is a joke.

Oops, that was a typo by me - they are retuning 100 BILLION to investors. I think it's $60b in buybacks and $40b in dividends. So they are doing exactly what you are asking.

Icahn wants them to return even more, but not with their existing cash - by borrowing more money. I personally don't want to see them rack up too much debt.

When it comes to investing, its not about moral compass. Its about making money. I would have sold at 500, but think Icahan and Einhorn are going to play a game here that will drive this stock up. This is the only reason I still have it.

So you think Apple is doomed, but you're in it for a quick bump? If that's the case, what's your target?

By the way my wife just upgraded phones and dumped has iPhone for the Samsung 4s

My commiserations to her - I predict buyer's remorse!

This is the future of Apple unless they do something. They well turn into a commodity company for iphone/pad. It is their only significant revenue, and it is under attack from everywhere.

By this time next year (if not sooner) I'm pretty sure you will have changed your tune...

I wish they were a organic home grown do no evil company.

Like...?

I mean really, they are an American manufacturing corporation. To bad they don't make anything in America.

Apple's new Mac Pro will be manufactured in America. Google's Moto X will be manufactured in America. I suspect both will have significant premiums because of that (Moto X already does). Let's see if Americans truly do want "made in America"...and are willing to pay up for it.

[Vanraw]

When it comes to investing, its not about moral compass. Its about making money. I would have sold at 500, but think Icahan and Einhorn are going to play a game here that will drive this stock up. This is the only reason I still have it.

So you think Apple is doomed, but you're in it for a quick bump? If that's the case, what's your target?

My target is 500. So at this point I have a stop at 499 which it almost hit today. I'll raise the stop if and as it goes up.

By the way my wife just upgraded phones and dumped has iPhone for the Samsung 4s

My commiserations to her - I predict buyer's remorse! [/quote]

So far she loves it.

This is the future of Apple unless they do something. They well turn into a commodity company for iphone/pad. It is their only significant revenue, and it is under attack from everywhere.

By this time next year (if not sooner) I'm pretty sure you will have changed your tune...
[/quote]

Hey I would love if they came out with a new innovated product. I just don't see it. They keep revamping what they have, but they need something. You say this time next year but I bet I could find a similar promise last year....

Fyi I don't own google and I don't own Samsung.

[Vanraw]

FYI last week my stop kicked in at 499. Very happy with the trade.

This stock might go up, but I probably will not buy unless it dips again, or unless they start talking about a new product fork that is actually intuitive.

[Grieve]

So far looks like your sale was a good one, although up pre-market today.

One surprising datapoint today, Apple crushed android (in terms of share gain) in the US over the last 12 months, despite no new phones since October and the launch of the S4 and so on. Same in the UK, but Android is surging on poor countries. Have to see if the cheaper model launched next week helps...

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/09/04/a...id-kantar/

[Vanraw]

So far looks like your sale was a good one, although up pre-market today.

One surprising datapoint today, Apple crushed android (in terms of share gain) in the US over the last 12 months, despite no new phones since October and the launch of the S4 and so on. Same in the UK, but Android is surging on poor countries. Have to see if the cheaper model launched next week helps...

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/09/04/a...id-kantar/

I would take this data with a grain of salt. The real issue is that phone sales are not going to have the dramatic movement apple experienced in the beginning of the smart phone market. Until there is something new, phones are becoming a commodity. What I mean by this is that the differentiator is no longer quality or features. When this happens to any product, the only focus is price point.

This isn't a religious argument. Apple profits will continue to be under pressure.

[Zirak]

This isn't a religious argument. Apple profits will continue to be under pressure.

You would dare blaspheme against the Holy Church of Steve Jobs in such a way? I'm sure the Grieve led Inquisition is even now headed your way.

[Grieve]

He's right behind Jake and Slamz on the hit squad list.

I think the growth in units may still be there, just not profits. But that's okay because iTV is on the way.

[Grieve]

Watching the Apple events...some interesting stuff.

o The "cheap" iPhone isn't cheap. $99 nod contract, so probably only $100 cheaper off contract
o Expectations were for a 33% faster chip. It's 100% faster than the iPhone 5, 40X faster than original iPhone, graphics also twice as fast, 56X faster than original iPhone. And it's the first ever 64bit phone - that's huge! Desktop-class power!
o Also has a motion coprocessor, for use in health and fitness apps
o fingerprint reader, as expected. Security to get into phone, and also authenticates you for iTunes purchases (that's a huge number of key codes/passwords every day it would save me already). I expect apps will soon incorporate it for other eretail as well
o Added NTT Docomo in Japan, which has $60m customers
o no announcement for china Mobile (700m subscribers), but by all accounts that will be announced soon
o Stock is down after announcements, which is almost always the case (sel on the news), but I think it will be a lot higher by the end of the year.

[Jakensama]

, but I think it will be a lot higher by the end of the year.

Of course you do.

[Breand]

I had the opposite reaction. I'm very worried about my stock now. The 5C is not "cheap." It still will not infiltrate low wage markets.

The 64 bit is great but will not translate well to a technologically inept customer base who don't know any better. Can't believe they didn't increase screen size, and the battery life is not improved. Whether they were needed or not, the lemming customer base expects these things. Meh is all I will say. And no other product annoucement either...double meh.

It's been a full year since the 5 was released. I was expecting much more.

[Grieve]

I have to admit I don't get why they released the 5C with a plastic back for $99 when they would normally just lower the price of the 5 (will metal case) to $99. They must be some hidden reason here... On the hand, if they did put out a truly "cheap" phone, everyone would be squawking about margins. They can't really win...

Also bear in mind there are millions of older iPhone users coming up for contract renewal, and they are almost all going to get the 5S.

As for other stuff, don't worry, there will be more events in October for new iPads, computers, and maybe new categories.

[Slamz]

"Faster" is only going to matter if people were complaining about their old iPhone being too slow.

Kind of the same reason I haven't upgraded my desktop PC in 2 years. There are faster processors and video cards out there now but so far I've not encountered the game or function that really needed it.

Maybe it's for all those millions of people who use their iPhone 4 for advanced video editing?

[Grieve]

Or the ones who want to play games like this on their phone...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqHjr19mvuE[/youtube]

[Jakensama]

Most people who play games on their phone play words with friends and candy crush saga. Shit, my Nexus is 2 years old and can play my playstation emulator just fine. Rendering might be an issue for tablets where people would play more hi res games, but phones?

64 bit operating systems and sexy processors are not of any particular interest to 99.8% of the market.

Also, infinity blade is perhaps the most mind numbingly repetitive games of all time. When the fuck will someone release a good game for ios or android that isn't a port of something released 15-20 years ago.

[Breand]

I am an iPhone and iPad owner, and a big timer gamer, and I have never heard of Infinity Blade until yesterday's unveiling. So if real gamers actually cared about the game, I would have heard. I do not look at my iPad as a gaming rig nor have expectations of such.

[Breand]

Someone made a table comparing market reaction to all release announcements, kind of interesting:

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[Slamz]

The other problem with that game is that the size of the embedded YouTube video on my laptop is like 100% larger than the size of even a Galaxy S4 screen.

Even if that was an awesome game, I'm not sure how much time I'd want to spend playing it on a screen that's 2.3" tall.