10-22-2009, 02:38 PM
Maybe the basic question is "what makes RPG combat fun".
To me, CC can be a lot of fun because of the tactics it adds. This squishy guy can't get away from me because I snared him. This melee can't hit me because I just turned him into a sheep. Granted nobody likes getting hit with CC but it does add a tactical element.
Positionals can be interesting -- attacks that only work from a particular direction -- but I don't really favor the twitchy feel it puts on the gameplay. I feel like it's less tactical and more trying to wrestle with the mouse and keyboard interface to act faster than you can react, which isn't, in my opinion, meant to be the focus of RPG style combat.
I'm starting to think about EQ.
As a warrior in EQ, you literally just had 3 buttons: autoattack (which was a toggle), bash (to interrupt spells) and taunt (which didn't do anything in PvP).
Where you spent the majority of your time was in "situational awareness". The combat wasn't really exciting. The real gameplay around combat was in making sure you were hitting the right guy and keeping on top of a dynamic situation. EQ didn't take it easy on you in terms of "adds" and if you weren't paying attention to what was going on, you'd end up wiping.
More modern MMORPGs put the focus on 1v1 combat where you have a great variety of abilities because you are meant to focus on your target. PvE coddles you by staying tame enough that you rarely find yourself in a dangerous, out of control situation, which means you need less situational awareness as you focus on your 1v1 fight.
In PvP, though, I don't think this style transfers over well. Now you have a character with 15 hotkeys to focus on, but you also are in a very dynamic battle where you need to keep an eye on what's happening around you, but you can't, really, because you're having to focus on your 1v1 combat and your 15 hotkeys.
Maybe there's something to be said for creating a really SIMPLE combat setup where most people have a very small selection of abilities to perform and then you arrange your game world for brutal PvE -- mobs that frequently run, call for help (and get it) and forces you to spend a lot of time examining the bigger battle rather than focusing on your individual 1v1 fight. Then when PvP breaks out, you're playing the same game: you have few abilities because you're meant to be monitoring a wider scope, perhaps with frequent target switching as opportunities change.
This also addresses something I've been thinking about with gold farmers and bots:
If your game can be readily played by a macro then your combat design must be fucking stupid.
For example, suppose your warrior had the following abilities:
1) Autoattack
2) Snare - target must be moving away from you and must be under 25% health
Autoattack has an automatic feature called "sucker punch". Anytime you autoattack someone who has not hit you within the last 15 seconds, it becomes a "sucker punch" and does extra damage. It's not a taunt, per se, but it has that net effect. Maybe it's like a personal debuff that stacks, so the longer you get to sucker punch them, the more damage it does. They basically need to target you and swing at you once to at least show that they're paying attention and are now "on guard" and not taking sucker punch damage anymore.
That's it.
2 buttons.
You are now expected to engage in situational awareness. NPCs, like players, will tend to try and run away when injured and if they make it away they'll tend to call for help. NPC patrols are common and have long eyesight, so adds will be a regular expectation. You're expected to be spending your time watching what's going on around you rather than watching your hotkey bar waiting for your 15 different abilities to refresh or be useful.
(I do think that this would be a hard sell to the public, though. "2 buttons?! OMG!")
To me, CC can be a lot of fun because of the tactics it adds. This squishy guy can't get away from me because I snared him. This melee can't hit me because I just turned him into a sheep. Granted nobody likes getting hit with CC but it does add a tactical element.
Positionals can be interesting -- attacks that only work from a particular direction -- but I don't really favor the twitchy feel it puts on the gameplay. I feel like it's less tactical and more trying to wrestle with the mouse and keyboard interface to act faster than you can react, which isn't, in my opinion, meant to be the focus of RPG style combat.
I'm starting to think about EQ.
As a warrior in EQ, you literally just had 3 buttons: autoattack (which was a toggle), bash (to interrupt spells) and taunt (which didn't do anything in PvP).
Where you spent the majority of your time was in "situational awareness". The combat wasn't really exciting. The real gameplay around combat was in making sure you were hitting the right guy and keeping on top of a dynamic situation. EQ didn't take it easy on you in terms of "adds" and if you weren't paying attention to what was going on, you'd end up wiping.
More modern MMORPGs put the focus on 1v1 combat where you have a great variety of abilities because you are meant to focus on your target. PvE coddles you by staying tame enough that you rarely find yourself in a dangerous, out of control situation, which means you need less situational awareness as you focus on your 1v1 fight.
In PvP, though, I don't think this style transfers over well. Now you have a character with 15 hotkeys to focus on, but you also are in a very dynamic battle where you need to keep an eye on what's happening around you, but you can't, really, because you're having to focus on your 1v1 combat and your 15 hotkeys.
Maybe there's something to be said for creating a really SIMPLE combat setup where most people have a very small selection of abilities to perform and then you arrange your game world for brutal PvE -- mobs that frequently run, call for help (and get it) and forces you to spend a lot of time examining the bigger battle rather than focusing on your individual 1v1 fight. Then when PvP breaks out, you're playing the same game: you have few abilities because you're meant to be monitoring a wider scope, perhaps with frequent target switching as opportunities change.
This also addresses something I've been thinking about with gold farmers and bots:
If your game can be readily played by a macro then your combat design must be fucking stupid.
For example, suppose your warrior had the following abilities:
1) Autoattack
2) Snare - target must be moving away from you and must be under 25% health
Autoattack has an automatic feature called "sucker punch". Anytime you autoattack someone who has not hit you within the last 15 seconds, it becomes a "sucker punch" and does extra damage. It's not a taunt, per se, but it has that net effect. Maybe it's like a personal debuff that stacks, so the longer you get to sucker punch them, the more damage it does. They basically need to target you and swing at you once to at least show that they're paying attention and are now "on guard" and not taking sucker punch damage anymore.
That's it.
2 buttons.
You are now expected to engage in situational awareness. NPCs, like players, will tend to try and run away when injured and if they make it away they'll tend to call for help. NPC patrols are common and have long eyesight, so adds will be a regular expectation. You're expected to be spending your time watching what's going on around you rather than watching your hotkey bar waiting for your 15 different abilities to refresh or be useful.
(I do think that this would be a hard sell to the public, though. "2 buttons?! OMG!")