05-26-2009, 05:05 PM
Most of you are still caught up in the fine details that mean nothing. That is why we keep ending up with the same crappy games.
Digs, Snow and Kak you are all talking about mechanic implimenation, Slamz is talking about the mechanics itself.
The trap that all RPG's keep falling in are the following:
1. Class based game.
2. Holy Trinity set up to give classes a sense of purpose.
3. Click auto target system.
4. PVE Reliance.
5. Special effects
You can't balance or fix any of the above to fit in a quality pvp game. To address them in an RPG you can do the following on each issue.
1. Dump class based games. Let people decide themselves how to play their characters. It doesn't take a genius to prevent the Plate Wearing Mage Healer with Duel wielding swords.
2. Holy Trinities are pve based concepts. When you take care of number 4 you will solve number 2. First start with healing. Planetside had very little healing. You just don't need it.
3. You can impliment FPS theories to the RPG chaundra. AoC did some of that. If you want to hit something with a sword you walked up to it and hit it. If it runs you follow it and hit it from behind. Dump AOE concepts totally. They break every game. If you want to hit something with spells you have to aim and hit it. If it moves bummer for you. Same with friendly spells. You need to aim to hit it.
4. PVE reliance breaks every pvp game. I am not saying you can't do both but very few people have ever gotten this right. If I can't log in and with in 5 minutes be pvping and can actually tell I am contributing your game is broken.
5. Build the game so that 200 people can stand in the same place and pvp. Games that look good never perform well. Spell effects and fancy graphics make pvp games worse not better. If you are looking at the pretty lights when you are in the midst of a pvp fight you are not a good pvper anyway.
As long as RPG games are in the Fantasy chaundra I don't expect any of these things to change. The next really good pvp we ever play will probably be of a different chaundra or something completely new anyway. If you are building a fantasy game you are automatically competing with WoW. That means you have real money behind you and pressure to fuck up your game.
The next great game will be something we totally didn't expect. The Wild West, Sci Fi, Japanese Samurai or something crazy like that.
Vllad
Digs, Snow and Kak you are all talking about mechanic implimenation, Slamz is talking about the mechanics itself.
The trap that all RPG's keep falling in are the following:
1. Class based game.
2. Holy Trinity set up to give classes a sense of purpose.
3. Click auto target system.
4. PVE Reliance.
5. Special effects
You can't balance or fix any of the above to fit in a quality pvp game. To address them in an RPG you can do the following on each issue.
1. Dump class based games. Let people decide themselves how to play their characters. It doesn't take a genius to prevent the Plate Wearing Mage Healer with Duel wielding swords.
2. Holy Trinities are pve based concepts. When you take care of number 4 you will solve number 2. First start with healing. Planetside had very little healing. You just don't need it.
3. You can impliment FPS theories to the RPG chaundra. AoC did some of that. If you want to hit something with a sword you walked up to it and hit it. If it runs you follow it and hit it from behind. Dump AOE concepts totally. They break every game. If you want to hit something with spells you have to aim and hit it. If it moves bummer for you. Same with friendly spells. You need to aim to hit it.
4. PVE reliance breaks every pvp game. I am not saying you can't do both but very few people have ever gotten this right. If I can't log in and with in 5 minutes be pvping and can actually tell I am contributing your game is broken.
5. Build the game so that 200 people can stand in the same place and pvp. Games that look good never perform well. Spell effects and fancy graphics make pvp games worse not better. If you are looking at the pretty lights when you are in the midst of a pvp fight you are not a good pvper anyway.
As long as RPG games are in the Fantasy chaundra I don't expect any of these things to change. The next really good pvp we ever play will probably be of a different chaundra or something completely new anyway. If you are building a fantasy game you are automatically competing with WoW. That means you have real money behind you and pressure to fuck up your game.
The next great game will be something we totally didn't expect. The Wild West, Sci Fi, Japanese Samurai or something crazy like that.
Vllad