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Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Dustie - 08-18-2009
I'm am a major Microsoft fan. I hardly ever jump on the "bash Microsoft" bandwagon. But I've finally reached my limit with the complexity of the latest MS development environments. It really didn't get bad until 2008. You have team edition, team suite edition, database edition, professional edition, express edition, office developer edition, web edition, tester edition and who knows what else. Each edition comes with countless sub components from Crystal Reports to SQL compact edition, to any number of the 20 other items listed in my "add remove programs" section. It's like the 5 different versions of vista problem. Each time some jerk at Microsoft opens his mouth, they create another edition of some product. Ehh Ok, I'm done for now.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Thudz - 08-18-2009
Dustie Wrote:I'm am a major Microsoft fan. I hardly ever jump on the "bash Microsoft" bandwagon. But I've finally reached my limit with the complexity of the latest MS development environments. It really didn't get bad until 2008. You have team edition, team suite edition, database edition, professional edition, express edition, office developer edition, web edition, tester edition and who knows what else. Each edition comes with countless sub components from Crystal Reports to SQL compact edition, to any number of the 20 other items listed in my "add remove programs" section. It's like the 5 different versions of vista problem. Each time some jerk at Microsoft opens his mouth, they create another edition of some product. Ehh Ok, I'm done for now.
We're stuck on 2005 for now. I always push for the bleeding edge, I guess my time at OTG spoiled me, we'd still be on 2002 if it wasn't for my bitching. I use 2008 at home for personal projects and never really noticed the different "flavors" to be an issue.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Slamz - 08-18-2009
I don't like Microsoft anymore. Making things overly complicated is basically their hobby. Does ditch digging pay well? I think after 14 years of programming I'm about ready to switch to ditch digging. Looks like a really good, enjoyable career.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Thudz - 08-18-2009
Slamz Wrote:I don't like Microsoft anymore. Making things overly complicated is basically their hobby. Does ditch digging pay well? I think after 14 years of programming I'm about ready to switch to ditch digging. Looks like a really good, enjoyable career.
As a Software Engineer you have two paths to choose from, Architect or Manager. Choose wisely. I'm currently wearing both shoes because of layoffs.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Dustie - 08-18-2009
Thudz Wrote:Dustie Wrote:I'm am a major Microsoft fan. I hardly ever jump on the "bash Microsoft" bandwagon. But I've finally reached my limit with the complexity of the latest MS development environments. It really didn't get bad until 2008. You have team edition, team suite edition, database edition, professional edition, express edition, office developer edition, web edition, tester edition and who knows what else. Each edition comes with countless sub components from Crystal Reports to SQL compact edition, to any number of the 20 other items listed in my "add remove programs" section. It's like the 5 different versions of vista problem. Each time some jerk at Microsoft opens his mouth, they create another edition of some product. Ehh Ok, I'm done for now.
We're stuck on 2005 for now. I always push for the bleeding edge, I guess my time at OTG spoiled me, we'd still be on 2002 if it wasn't for my bitching. I use 2008 at home for personal projects and never really noticed the different "flavors" to be an issue.
Yes, a single installation of 2008 pro is fine, I agree. The problems occur when you need DB edition and then you need to add team site edition, and then you need to add 15 different patches and updates, and then you need to add AJAX BS, and then ASP.net crap, and then office tools for visual studio.
Ditch digging sounds good.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Diggles - 08-18-2009
Slamz Wrote:I don't like Microsoft anymore. Making things overly complicated is basically their hobby. Does ditch digging pay well? I think after 14 years of programming I'm about ready to switch to ditch digging. Looks like a really good, enjoyable career.
Make 1 ultra popular iPhone app
retire
/offer I have a insanely good idea if you have the technical chops to code it
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Slamz - 08-19-2009
Problem with iPhone apps is there are sooo many of them, even if you make a great one you'll probably never be "found".
I know Grieve was interested in making them and had looked into it. I don't even have an iPhone.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - OrsunVZ - 08-19-2009
Man do I have a good app idea. Thought of it as I read this post.
Anyway, regardign MS, it's just a matter of time before google conquers the world, and simplicity will be yours once again.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Hoofhurr - 08-19-2009
If you have a good iphone app it will be found. That's what advertising is for.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Dustie - 08-19-2009
OrsunVZ Wrote:Man do I have a good app idea. Thought of it as I read this post.
Anyway, regardign MS, it's just a matter of time before google conquers the world, and simplicity will be yours once again.
I've invested about 10 years in MS technology and Windows platforms. I'm finally at the point where I'd even consider a pay cut to go work on something neat like google apps, the google toolkit or iPhone apps.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Grieve - 08-19-2009
I'm in the iPhone developer program, and I've written a few small apps, but not published anything to the app store yet. Have some killer ideas, but life has been too busy to do much so far...
There are a lot of apps (over 70,000 last time I checked), but there's also 10s of millions of iPhone/iTouch users. Get the right app and you'll hit the jackpot...
Dustie Wrote:OrsunVZ Wrote:Man do I have a good app idea. Thought of it as I read this post.
Anyway, regardign MS, it's just a matter of time before google conquers the world, and simplicity will be yours once again.
I've invested about 10 years in MS technology and Windows platforms. I'm finally at the point where I'd even consider a pay cut to go work on something neat like google apps, the google toolkit or iPhone apps.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Thudz - 08-19-2009
As a proof of concept for our mobile banking platform I wrote an iPhone app that interfaces with our cash management web services and allows users to access account balances, transfer funds and view bank reports. Although tens of thousands of customer users would pay well for this I'd probably be fired and sued into oblivion if I sold it.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Diggles - 08-19-2009
cut back on regular work hours and use the time to make a good app. you dont get rich working for someone else
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Vanraw - 08-19-2009
Back on the microslop stuff, I agree Dustie. Its like their only innovation is finding ways to split up applications so they "up sell" the upgrade.
Sad Sad......
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Thudz - 08-19-2009
Vanraw Wrote:Back on the microslop stuff, I agree Dustie. Its like their only innovation is finding ways to split up applications so they "up sell" the upgrade.
Sad Sad......
They are very successful at this. I can't find it now but I was reading an article which showed that .NET now owns a massive majority of all new enterprise development. Java has splintered itself into so many frameworks that software shops are moving to .NET for new development in droves for easy of development and well supported framework. Windows is making leaps and bounds in the enterprise solution space as well. We are down to only supporting AIX for two of our customers. All the rest have migrated to Windows servers or have started on Windows from project conception. It's to the point where we are talking less and less about cross platform support.
I personally like the tools Microsoft has provided us Engineers. I work in Eclipse about as much as I do MS VS .NET and I much perfer the MS IDE.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Vanraw - 08-19-2009
From a large enterprise perspective we put very little on windows. I have a ton of AIX, but we have shied away from IBM as well. SUN and Intel based Linux is where all our work is going. But I work in a "real" Real-time space. Telephone call processing. Windows just doesn't scale in our space.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Thudz - 08-19-2009
Vanraw Wrote:From a large enterprise perspective we put very little on windows. I have a ton of AIX, but we have shied away from IBM as well. SUN and Intel based Linux is where all our work is going. But I work in a "real" Real-time space. Telephone call processing. Windows just doesn't scale in our space.
I work in online cash management. Our system has to handle thousands of users with massive volumes of real-time transactions. We recently went to the IBM lab to have our system officially stress tested. While the numbers on their AIX platforms were nice we have customers running on load balanced Windows environments with about half the investment in hardware around the same levels.
One to one AIX will beat Windows the thing is you can buy 3 Windows servers for the price of a single AIX box and AIX doesn't out perform Windows 3 to 1. It's all about cost. We also load balance at all three tiers, presentment, application and database so the more machines the better for us. I will say that most of our databases are Oracle running on something other than Windows.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Vanraw - 08-20-2009
That's why Linux on Intel systems is the small to medium solution now. IBM has taken an interesting approach to the issue. They have embraced linux on Intel, and have actually built systems now that are blowing away performance numbers. They have also conquered Java better then Sun.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Jakensama - 08-20-2009
This thread makes me smile that I didn't get into computer related work like my parents thought I should back in 99...
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Dustie - 08-20-2009
Thudz, I'm not saying that MS doesn't have the best framework and IDE. I'm simply saying that they're going down the road of adding unnecessary complexity when they don't need it.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Thudz - 08-20-2009
Dustie Wrote:Thudz, I'm not saying that MS doesn't have the best framework and IDE. I'm simply saying that they're going down the road of adding unnecessary complexity when they don't need it.
Your added complexity is someone else's added functionality. Does any one person use all the features available? Doubt it. But to reach as broad an audience as possible they need to keep bringing feature functionality to the marketplace. Other IDEs are no different, especially Eclipse, but instead of making you scour the Earth for the right plugin Microsoft puts every at your finger tips.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Dustie - 08-20-2009
I would disagree. I would suggest that all these different version are for marketing purposes more so then for technical purposes. I have nothing wrong with marketing different product to make an extra buck, I do have a problem with marketing the same product to make an extra buck. Microsoft should be innovating and making new products to fuel growth, not simply splitting the product they currently have up into 5 new products.
Another example:
Vista Home Basic
Vista Home Premium
Vista Business
Vista Enterprise
Vista Ultimate
..And we all know how well Vista has been received in the marketplace.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Thudz - 08-20-2009
Dustie Wrote:I would disagree. I would suggest that all these different version are for marketing purposes more so then for technical purposes. I have nothing wrong with marketing different product to make an extra buck, I do have a problem with marketing the same product to make an extra buck. Microsoft should be innovating and making new products to fuel growth, not simply splitting the product they currently have up into 5 new products.
Another example:
Vista Home Basic
Vista Home Premium
Vista Business
Vista Enterprise
Vista Ultimate
..And we all know how well Vista has been received in the marketplace.
Different people have different needs and different spending limits. What's wrong with tiered distribution? Although each of those products is built on the same framework they each offer services above and beyond the tier below it. Define your needs and price point and purchase accordingly. People would complain if there was only one option and Microsoft was forcing services that hardly anybody used to everyone. Tiered distibution is best.
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Hoofhurr - 08-20-2009
Jakensama Wrote:This thread makes me smile that I didn't get into computer related work like my parents thought I should back in 99...
Bullshit. Computers are irrelevant. You just enjoy others misfortune, topic unspecified. :lol:
Re: Visual Studio 2008 has become too complicated - Jakensama - 08-20-2009
I am living in the land whose language invented the word 'schadenfreude'