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+--- Thread: Alienware (/showthread.php?tid=12177)
Alienware - OrsunVZ - 11-22-2012
Through my business, I have a really good credit program with dell. I still need to see if the alienware line is available through the program, but I am stuck buying dell.
I definitely need to upgrade my pc and I was looking at the xps systems as well as the alienware aurora R4s. the xps's piss me off because the video card options suck and are just not high-end enough, so the Aurora seems to be my only route... I don't want top of the line, but of the R4 options out there, what do you think is the best way to go? I want to try to stay around 1700 but could go a bit higher if there was something worthwhile.
Re: Alienware - OrsunVZ - 11-22-2012
The one upgrade I am considering is the GTX 680... puts me up to 1900 from the base aurora model.
Re: Alienware - Slamz - 11-22-2012
The main thing I don't like about Dell is that they use proprietary parts -- the motherboard and power supply on my parents' XPS were both non-standard, which meant the case was also non-standard, which means when it comes time to upgrade the motherboard you'll have to just get a whole new machine. I dunno if that's true for their Alienware line, which *used* to be standard (if funny looking) before Dell bought them.
Their prices also seem really high but maybe it's just because they load things out a little strangely. (32GB of RAM? Really? Are you going to run 3 copies of Planetside and 3 copies of Guild Wars 2 at the same time?)
For nVidia video cards, anything over about x50 is good. 560, 660, 580, 680, etc.
Re: Alienware - strife - 11-22-2012
OrsunVZ Wrote:Through my business, I have a really good credit program with dell. I still need to see if the alienware line is available through the program, but I am stuck buying dell.I'm confused... I realize you have a good credit program with dell... but why does that force you to use Dell and that credit program? $1900 on a PC is $400 more than I would be willing to pay for a top of the line system.
I definitely need to upgrade my pc and I was looking at the xps systems as well as the alienware aurora R4s. the xps's piss me off because the video card options suck and are just not high-end enough, so the Aurora seems to be my only route... I don't want top of the line, but of the R4 options out there, what do you think is the best way to go? I want to try to stay around 1700 but could go a bit higher if there was something worthwhile.
Like Slamz said, the proprietary parts are an issue for upgrading. If you're the type that upgrades computers by buying a new one, I guess that's not a big deal... but for replacing parts, sometimes that could be an issue. Also they are more expensive and your options are limited.
Just looked at that one through the dell configurator... for $1900 you're not getting any SSD(which IMO should almost be standard as a primary drive), you're overpaying for a video card($405 option on top of whatever the cost of the 560ti it comes standard with... which is about a $150 video card. So that's ~$550 for a $450 video card). The Alienwares you're paying a lot for bells and whistles that don't make the computer work better(mechanical vents that open on the top when it's powered on, a ton of lighting). It appears to have the CPU liquid cooled, but nothing else which annoys me...
Re: Alienware - Snowreap - 11-22-2012
personally, I have found that it works well to buy a Dell that has a solid motherboard and a good CPU, then upgrade the power supply and the video card myself. generally, this means getting an Optiplex machine (but not one of the small-form-factor ones).
for example, in 2007 I bought an Optiplex 745 from the Dell Outlet. I don't recall the exact price but it was probably less than $800. this particular one, iirc, was 'unsold new' (i.e. somebody ordered it, Dell built it, but then the order was cancelled) but I've also bought refurbs (and unlike HP refurbs, the only visible evidence that a Dell refurb isn't brand new is the green 'REFURBISHED' sticker). it came with a Core 2 Duo CPU (E6400, 2.13GHz), 2GB RAM and 2 250GB drives. the video card it came with was a Radeon X1300 Pro 256MB, and I replaced that almost immediately with a Radeon HD3650 512MB which could run on PCI-E slot power alone (no separate power supply connection needed).
in late 2008, when we started playing a new game that the HD3650 just couldn't handle (keep battles in Warhammer Online is probably what pushed me to do it) I replaced the stock 305W power supply with an aftermarket 500W power supply and upgraded the video card to a Radeon HD4850.
that configuration has worked fine until now, but it won't run GW2 (probably because I need more than 2GB RAM for that game). at this point I will probably upgrade to 4GB RAM (or more) and if I can find a compatible CPU at a good price I may upgrade that too as long as I'm in there doing stuff. I will probably use this machine to give Windows 8 a try, as well.
I've gotten a solid 5 years out of this rig, and I can probably get another 5 at least (although it's usefulness as a gaming rig may not last beyond another couple of years). I *could* upgrade the video card again but if that really becomes necessary it will probably be time to replace the entire system anyway.
edit: Mona looked it up and the Optiplex 745 was just under $1100 from Dell Outlet. the extra cost over my $800 guess is probably because it came with a full copy of Microsoft Office (some kind of business edition that included Outlook and Access) and it had a second hard disk (which I wanted for Fraps recordings).
-ken
Re: Alienware - Diggles - 11-23-2012
Majority of Dell systems are cheap shit parts that are unreliable AT BEST...thats why they consistently get class action law suited on a regular basis. There is a reason why their systems are the least expensive, they cut corners.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawsuits_involving_Dell_Inc">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawsuits_i ... g_Dell_Inc</a><!-- m -->.
They are a greedy, lying and cheating company, why would you continue to give them your business? Same goes for Sony. Between the 2 of them, they probably have more lawsuits than all the other PC manufacturers combined.
Re: Alienware - OrsunVZ - 11-23-2012
After looking deeper I may not. Their low end systems are cheap and do everything you them to, but hen doing comoparisons on the high end systems, it's just upsetting. I'm going to have to figure something else out.
Re: Alienware - strife - 11-23-2012
Build yourself, find someone to build for you, or IBuypower.com
Re: Alienware - Snowreap - 11-23-2012
yes, it's a good idea to do your homework if you buy a Dell. or any machine, really. I've been pretty lucky; all the Dells we have have been reliable performers.
I have a number of Optiplex GXa and GX1 systems that are all still working fine (these lines were introduced in 1998/1999 and are based on the rock-solid Intel 440BX chipset).
the Optiplex GX270 is notorious for failures -- this is the line that had bad capacitors and which Dell got sued over. I never had one of these.
in the past 5 years or so we've also purchased a number of Optiplex 745 and 755 systems. none of these have had any problems, except for an onboard NIC failure on one (this failure may have been due to a nearby lightning strike but I don't remember. rather than replacing the system board we just threw a PCI-E NIC in there and the machine has been fine since).
the Optiplex 9010 appears to have had some early problems that have since been resolved. I don't have any of these but I bring it up to point out that it's always a good idea to avoid brand-new models -- give them time to work the bugs out.
here's a likely prospect: an Optiplex 7010 with a Core i5 3550 (3.3GHz 3rd gen), 4GB RAM, 500GB HD, and Radeon HD7570 GPU. Dell Outlet has this model refurbished for $700. the Radeon HD7570 is a Geforce 8800GT class card, so it's not particularly fast by today's standards but you can replace it with a Radeon HD7750 for about $100 (the 7750 will run on PCI-E slot power alone, so you may not need to upgrade the power supply, although this card may push the stock Dell power supply to its absolute limits). it looks like the Optiplex 7010 uses a standard ATX power supply so you should be able to replace that also, and if you can that means you can use pretty much any graphics card you want to put in there.
-ken
Re: Alienware - Donions - 11-23-2012
Im pretty happy with my ibuypower system so far.
Re: Alienware - Slamz - 11-23-2012
You probably would save at least $500, likely more, building it yourself.
Motherboard
8 GB RAM
nVidia 560, 580, 660 or 680 video card, depending on how much you want to spend
Intel i7 CPU of some sort
Power supply (unless you can use the old one)
Case (unless you can use the old one)
Done.
Probably will end up in the neighborhood of $800 - $1200 depending on how much of your old system you want to / can reuse.
Keep your existing hard drives unless you have a reason to leave them in the old machine or just really want new hard drives.
Assembling all the stuff yourself is somewhat tedious but not difficult:
* Screw motherboard standoff screws into case
* Line up the motherboard and screw it into the standoff screw holes
* Screw the power supply into the case
* Attach all the wires to all their corresponding slots
In Ye Olden Times you really had to be careful what you plugged into what but these days it's just about foolproof. About the worst you can do is fail to plug something in, in which case it usually just doesn't turn on.
Re: Alienware - Diggles - 11-23-2012
put the CPU in the correct corner, or damage the pins and negate warranty
put the ram in backwards and break it, damage motherboard in process
break out the magnifier glasses and tweezers to hook up the case wires to mobo
forget to plug extra power into video card and watch it overheat
get too much thermal grease on CPU and watch it drip onto MOBO and ruin both
get too little termal grease on CPU and watch it overheat/burnup on first power up
heh, there is ALOT that can go wrong assembling your own
Re: Alienware - Kakarat - 11-23-2012
Diggles Wrote:put the CPU in the correct corner, or damage the pins and negate warranty
put the ram in backwards and break it, damage motherboard in process
break out the magnifier glasses and tweezers to hook up the case wires to mobo
forget to plug extra power into video card and watch it overheat
get too much thermal grease on CPU and watch it drip onto MOBO and ruin both
get too little termal grease on CPU and watch it overheat/burnup on first power up
heh, there is ALOT that can go wrong assembling your own
Doesn`t a new CPU come with thermal grease already applied to them...well the good ones anyway.
Re: Alienware - Slamz - 11-26-2012
Diggles Wrote:put the CPU in the correct corner, or damage the pins and negate warrantyCPU only goes in one way. Even if you fail to line up the corners, just don't beat it with a hammer and you're fine.
Quote:put the ram in backwards and break it, damage motherboard in processRAM these days only goes in one way. You'd have to be blind and again with the hammer.
Quote:break out the magnifier glasses and tweezers to hook up the case wires to moboThis is the hardest part but these days most mobos come with those little...clip...things... all the wires go on it in clearly marked locations and then it goes on the motherboard, again, only one way.
Quote:forget to plug extra power into video card and watch it overheatI've done this before, but at least with that card (nVidia) it just didn't give me any video at all until I plugged in the extra power.
Quote:get too much thermal grease on CPU and watch it drip onto MOBO and ruin bothIf you're buying a new Intel, there's no work to do here, because they'll come with thermal grease set on the heatsink already, ready for install. Not sure about AMD.
get too little termal grease on CPU and watch it overheat/burnup on first power up
10 years ago you could easily fuck up an install. Had to really read the directions, which were usually none too clear.
These days you basically just have to not be a buffoon, and make sure everything is plugged in before you turn it on.
I think the last bit of hardware I screwed up was a 5.25" floppy drive.
Re: Alienware - Karne - 11-26-2012
Orsun having just built a machine and gone through the exploration of what is out there. I can tell you that sites like Ibuypower and Cyberpowerpc are much better systems for the money if you want to buy a prebuilt. I looked at Alienware and they seemed really high on prices compared to these two. I ended up deciding to build my own.
ASUS P8Z77-V LE Plus - Motherboard
Nvidia GTX 660
16 Gigs Ram
650 Watt PS
I5 3570k
120 SSD
1 TB Sata (ripped out of my old system)
Case
All for around a 1000 bucks running my old copy of windows 7. Wasn't hard to put together either.
Re: Alienware - strife - 11-26-2012
When I was building my new box I went to ibuypower just to compare... and after comparing, the totals were very similar to buying and building... so I just let them do it.
I think unless you are using parts you already have, you're not going to save much by building over going the ibuypower route.
Re: Alienware - Karne - 11-26-2012
I ended up saving a couple hundred, but mostly because I was able to recirculate my hd as a data storage drive, and owned a copy of Windows 7. My previous PC was from IBuypower and was a beast of a machine in it's time. I'd totally recommend that over Dell Alienware.
Re: Alienware - OrsunVZ - 11-26-2012
Worth it?
Quote:$1,251.00
1 x Case CoolerMaster Storm Enforcer Gaming Case - Black
0 x Case Lighting None
0 x iBUYPOWER Labs - Noise Reduction None
0 x iBUYPOWER Labs - Internal Expansion None
1 x Processor Intel® Core™ i7-3770K Processor (4x 3.50GHz/8MB L3 Cache) - Intel Core i7-3770K
0 x iBUYPOWER PowerDrive None
1 x Processor Cooling Liquid CPU Cooling System [SOCKET-1155] - Standard 120mm Fan
1 x Memory 8 GB [2 GB X4] DDR3-1600 Memory Module - Corsair or Major Brand
1 x Video Card NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 Ti - 2GB - FREE Upgrade to 660Ti 2GB EVGA Superclocked - Single Card
1 x Video Card Brand Major Brand Powered by AMD or NVIDIA
1 x Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z77-D3H -- 1x PCI-E 3.0 x16, 4x USB 3.0
0 x Intel Smart Response Technology None
1 x Power Supply 500 Watt - Standard
1 x Primary Hard Drive 1 TB HARD DRIVE -- 32M Cache, 7200 RPM, 6.0Gb/s - Single Drive **Free Upgrade to 2TB SATA 6.0Gb/s Single Drive**
0 x Data Hard Drive None
1 x Optical Drive [12X Blu-Ray] LG BLU-RAY Reader, DVD±R/±RW Burner Combo Drive - *Thanksgiving Weekend Specials* FREE Upgrade to LG BLU-RAY Re-Writer Black
0 x 2nd Optical Drive None
0 x Flash Media Reader / Writer None
0 x Meter Display None
0 x USB Expansion None
1 x Sound Card 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard
1 x Network Card Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100)
1 x Operating System Windows 8 + Office 2010 Trial [Free 60-Day !!!] - 64-bit
1 x Keyboard iBUYPOWER Standard Gaming Keyboard
1 x Mouse iBUYPOWER Standard Gaming Mouse - Blood Red
0 x Monitor None
0 x 2nd Monitor None
0 x Speaker System None
0 x Video Camera None
0 x Case Engraving Service None
1 x Warranty 3 Year Standard Warranty Service
Re: Alienware - Karne - 11-26-2012
Only suggestions I'd have are below.
1. Get an SSD. 120 gigs is probably fine. Am running windows 7 and GW only on mine. Rest is on Sata
2. Get 16 gigs of ram. Ram is cheap right now and although probably more than you will use it's cheap now.
3. Maybe upgrade that motherboard. It seems low end if your going to go for a higher end graphic card and I7 processor.
4. Do you use Blueray on your pc? if not just put a dvr/rw in save yourself a few bucks.
Re: Alienware - strife - 11-26-2012
And(adding to what Karne said) upgrade the Power supply, 500 is about bare minimum IMO for that video card. I'd upgrade ram only because it's cheap... no REAL need for more than 8GB for gaming at least.
Just right off the bat, buying the parts would be
$300 for CPU
$300 for Video card
$100 for MB
$75 for Case
$40+ for Ram
~$60 for Blu-Ray
$100 for Windows 8 full OEM
$50+ for PSU
$75+ for Liquid cooling
$100+ for HD
So just going at the low end on these, I'm up to $1200, just to buy parts from Newegg. The PSU & Liquid cooling may be worth more, but the description doesn't tell me enough. Same thing with the ram & HD
+the warranty, + them putting it together, + a shitty keyboard & mouse which you should probably remove.
Re: Alienware - OrsunVZ - 11-26-2012
So this is what I think I am going to go with, with the intention of upgrading the powersupply and videocard in 2 years...
Quote:Intel Z77 Core i5/i7 Configurator $1,309.00 1 $1,309.00
1 x Case NZXT Source 210 Gaming Case - Blue
0 x Case Lighting None
0 x iBUYPOWER Labs - Noise Reduction None
0 x iBUYPOWER Labs - Internal Expansion None
1 x Processor Intel® Core™ i7-3770K Processor (4x 3.50GHz/8MB L3 Cache) - Intel Core i7-3770K
0 x iBUYPOWER PowerDrive None
1 x Processor Cooling Liquid CPU Cooling System [SOCKET-1155] - Standard 120mm Fan
1 x Memory 16 GB [4 GB X4] DDR3-1600 Memory Module - Corsair or Major Brand **Free Upgrade to DDR3-1866 G.SKILL RipjawsX**
1 x Video Card AMD Radeon HD 7870 - 2GB - Single Card
1 x Video Card Brand Major Brand Powered by AMD or NVIDIA
1 x Free Stuff *[FREE] - Gigabyte GC-WB300D Bluetooth 4.0 / Dual Band WiFi Expansion Card - Free with purchase of ALL Desktop
1 x Free Stuff [FREE Game Download] - DiRT Showdown - Free with purchase of AMD Processor / Radeon video card
1 x Free Stuff [FREE Game Download] - Sleeping Dogs - Free with purchase of AMD Radeon HD 7870 or above
1 x Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UP5 TH -- 3x PCI-E 3.0 x16, 7x USB 3.0, 1x eSATA, 2x Thunderbolt
0 x Intel Smart Response Technology None
1 x Power Supply 500 Watt - Standard
1 x Primary Hard Drive 180 GB Intel 330 SSD - Single Drive *FREE Upgrade from 60GB Intel 330 after MIR*
1 x Data Hard Drive 2 TB HARD DRIVE -- 64M Cache, 7200rpm, 6.0Gb/s - Single Drive
1 x Optical Drive 24X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive - *Thanksgiving Weekend Specials* FREE Upgrade to LG BLU-RAY Reader Combo Drive Black
0 x 2nd Optical Drive None
0 x Flash Media Reader / Writer None
0 x Meter Display None
0 x USB Expansion None
1 x Sound Card 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard
1 x Network Card Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100)
1 x Operating System None- Pre-formatted Hard Drive Only
1 x Keyboard iBUYPOWER Standard Gaming Keyboard
1 x Mouse iBUYPOWER Standard Gaming Mouse - Blood Red
0 x Monitor None
0 x 2nd Monitor None
0 x Speaker System None
0 x Video Camera None
0 x Case Engraving Service None
1 x Warranty 3 Year Standard Warranty Service
1 x Rush Service Rush Service Fee (not shipping fee) - No Rush Service, Estimate Ship date by 12-10-2012
It's a bit more than I was wanting to spend, but I think it has everything I am looking for.
Re: Alienware - strife - 11-26-2012
The new one
$40 for case
$300 CPU
$60 Ram
$240 Video Card
$240 MB
$100 SSD
$50+ for PSU
$75+ for Liquid cooling
$100+ for HD
$40 Blu-Ray
Puts you at about $1245 with NO OS. GPU is on the same Tom's Hardware Heirarchy tier and is a little cheaper card. Plus a few "Free" goodies. I am personally an NVIDIA fan, but that's just me. AMD's are good cards as well.
Both are going to be nice rigs. If you wanted to skimp you could cut back on the I7 to a cheaper CPU(like an I5), you could do that and not notice much if any of a difference in gaming... that being said, I bought an I7, so what do I know
I would still want a little more PSU than 500. I would run at least 600-700 on anything I built. I believe 600 is listed as the minimum for that card, but not 100% sure.
Re: Alienware - OrsunVZ - 11-26-2012
Thanks. I'ma pull the trigger tonight. I want to keep the i7 in there simply because I think this rig will run anything I can currently throw at it, and with minimal upgrading effort I can keep it very much valid for a long time.
Re: Alienware - Lendryn - 11-27-2012
Hey O-face, here's my thoughts on your build.
OrsunVZ Wrote:1 x Processor Intel® Core™ i7-3770K Processor (4x 3.50GHz/8MB L3 Cache) - Intel Core i7-3770KThis is a really beefy CPU (and expensive). If you're looking to cut a few bucks, drop down to the i7-3770 (no "K") which saves $50. The "K" essentially means that the bus/core multiplier (which is used to determine the CPU frequency) is unlocked. This allows the system to be more finely tuned when overclocking. Unless you're going to be doing some pretty extreme overclocking then the only appreciable difference between these processors is the 100 MHz core clock ratio. They both have the same max turbo frequency (Intel's built-in overclocking), however, which means that unless you're running all 4 physical cores to their limit then you will pretty much see absolutely no difference between the two CPUs.
To save another $60+ you may want to consider dropping down to the i5 also. The i7 has better shared cache (+2MB) which means that it will run a little faster in high-frequency repetetive memory access type tasks (like gaming
), but you will likely see little to no difference in your gaming experience. If you either run a lot of very multi-CPU intensive tasks, like multimedia encoding or encryption of large amounts of secretive data recovered during your moonlighting espionage missions, or if you plan to not upgrade again for a REALLY long time then it might be worthwhile to stick with the i7.The i7 also supports their hyperthreading mechanism that allows two threads to run simultaneously on each core, which does have a little benefit when doing a lot of heavy multi-tasking. Remember that it still only has 4 physical cores, which means if you're maxing out the CPU on all your cores you will not see much benefit from this. i.e. it has little effect on gaming.
Compare for yourself:
Intel® Core™ i7-3770 Processor
Intel® Core™ i7-3770K Processor
OrsunVZ Wrote:1 x Memory 16 GB [4 GB X4] DDR3-1600 Memory Module - Corsair or Major Brand **Free Upgrade to DDR3-1866 G.SKILL RipjawsX**You really don't need 16GB of memory unless you're going to be running a lot of high-memory usage tasks simultaneously. Most applications, especially games, are still 32-bit, which means they cannot even use more than 4GB per application on a 64-bit OS. Additionally there aren't many games that even come close to allocating 4GB of memory. You could save $66 by dropping down to 8 GB (2x4GB). You can always add more later if you need to, but I doubt you will need it anytime soon.
OrsunVZ Wrote:1 x Video Card AMD Radeon HD 7870 - 2GB - Single CardI agree with Strife that AMD also makes good GPUs and the difference between them and nVidia is pretty thin nowadays. I assume that you're running a standard 1920x1080 resolution monitor. This card should be sufficient to run any current generation games at this resolution at nice smooth frame rates. If gaming is the main function of this box then the video card is generally #1 on your priority list. If you wanted to reallocate some of the above savings into a video card upgrade then a step up to the 660 Ti or 7950 would be a good alternative. Personally I would recommend saving your money and upgrade the video card (or buy a 2nd card for Xfire) in a couple years if your find your games running slow at that time.
OrsunVZ Wrote:1 x Motherboard Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UP5 TH -- 3x PCI-E 3.0 x16, 7x USB 3.0, 1x eSATA, 2x ThunderboltWhoa! You probably don't need a $240 MB. I find that if you're paying over $150 for a MB then you're typically paying a lot extra for a few more bells and whistles. You could step down to the GA-Z77X-UP4 TH and save $73 unless you REALLY need those 3 extra USB 3.0 ports and the eSata port. The UP5 has a slightly better audio chipset, but I wouldn't worry about this unless you're also using your system as a multi-media box.
OrsunVZ Wrote:1 x Power Supply 500 Watt - StandardDo not EVER purchase a power supply if you do not know the manufacturer! A good, quality and reliable PSU will maintain the life of your components and will also typically be more kind to your electric bill, as well. I had a motherboard actually IGNITE once because of a faulty PSU that was fluctuating power so badly it overloaded the voltage regulator on my MB and fried it--literally.
You typically want your PSU to be rated at twice the peak power demand. This ensures that it will be able to more reliably deliver power to the system and it will run more efficiently. I would guess this system running games will likely consume 300-400W of power at peak, which means you will want something around 700W. The 750W Corsair one looks sufficient.
Look at the efficiency rating of the PSU 80+ (Bronze) or better is good.
Corsair TX750 V2 750W
OrsunVZ Wrote:1 x Primary Hard Drive 180 GB Intel 330 SSD - Single Drive *FREE Upgrade from 60GB Intel 330 after MIR*The Intel SSDs are quite nice, but rather expensive. If you're comfortable installing an SSD in your box and reinstalling windows (I assume they include an OEM windows installation DVD?) you might want to consider passing on the SSD from iBuyPower and pick one up from elsewhere--there are some good deals floating around right now.
OrsunVZ Wrote:1 x Optical Drive 24X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive - *Thanksgiving Weekend Specials* FREE Upgrade to LG BLU-RAY Reader Combo Drive BlackUnless you plan on playing blu-ray movies on your computer (media-box stuff) or using blu-ray discs as a backup storage mechanism (blasphemy!) then you can cut out the $41 extra charge here. I don't see any mention about playback or recording software, which means you'll have to shell out extra $ to *ahem* legally make use of this functionality.
If you have any other specific questions let me know!
Re: Alienware - Donions - 11-29-2012
He said he pulled the trigger already ya old meatsack!